Next 2 largest US cities without interstate connection?

[txstateends]

(Wasn't sure if this had been covered before, but oh well here goes anyway)

After seeing the latest part of the I-11 thread referring to Las Vegas and Phoenix being the 2 largest US cities without a connecting interstate, I wondered.  What would be the next 2 largest (assuming I-11 gets built, and I-22 not too far from done Memphis-Birmingham) US cities without that connection?

Any rational possibilities left (preferably between 2 cities that probably could benefit from having a legitimate interstate connection) ?

[hotdogPi]

Does distance matter?

New York City and Los Angeles don't have a connecting Interstate.

[NE2]

Does distance matter?

New York City and Los Angeles don't have a connecting Interstate.

...they have an all-Interstate route connecting them, smartarse.


You can't obviously sort city pairs by population (do you add the two? if so, NYC-Podunk beats anything else; take the smaller one? this might work, but there may be problems; geometric mean? this would place a connection between 10M and 1M cities above two with 1.1M, but might have other problems). Austin-Houston (mean 2.60M) is roughly comparable to Las Vegas-Phoenix (mean 2.62M). If we want to come up with actual rankings, we need to figure out what figure to use. (Obviously we want to use urbanized area populations, not just inside city limits, to prevent this from being complete trivia.)

PS: NYC-Philadelphia

[empirestate]

PS: NYC-Philadelphia

So, your answer to the thread topic is Phoenix and Las Vegas?

[corco]

...they have an all-Interstate route connecting them, smartarse.

So do Phoenix and Las Vegas- > I-15 to I-40 to I-17

Seriously though, before somebody says Denver to Salt Lake, I-25 to I-80 is about six miles longer than I-70 to US-6 to I-15 (where a "direct" interstate would run).


What about Boise to Reno? Boise to Spokane?

[pianocello]

I would say Phoenix-San Diego, but I'm sure many people would consider I-10 -> I-8 or I-10 -> I-215 -> I-15 to be close enough.

Also, Fresno-anywhere could qualify, but probably not as the largest pair.

[roadman65]

Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it.  The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.

  Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.

[TEG24601]

I would actually say if we are dealing with direct, and not meandering routes, the following, in my mind, would qualify...


Portland, OR and Spokane, WA (US 395 doesn't count, it isn't an Interstate)
Reno, NV/Carson City, NV and Las Vegas, NV
Green Bay, WI and Sault Set Marie, MI
Bakersfield, CA and everywhere

[sandwalk]

Columbus - Detroit

[jp the roadgeek]

Hartford-Providence

[Scott5114]

Tulsa-Wichita and Oklahoma City-Denver spring to mind.

[Pink Jazz]

Phoenix-Mesa, connected by US 60 and Loop 202.  Mesa, a suburb of Phoenix, is larger in population than many more famous cities such as Atlanta or Miami.

[ski-man]

Austin - Houston

[Sykotyk]

LV-Phoenix isn't direct. I'd have to say I-15 to I-40 to I-17 is a horribly roundabout way to travel between the two. Saying NYC-LA isn't as there isn't a single non-freeway route that cuts time off the trip in any appreciable way. Or even a part of it.

Honestly, I'd think the next culprits are going to be routes such as: Austin-Houston (as mentioned by ski-man, which has a very well-done expressway/freeway option). RGV area to Houston or San Antonio as well. You could argue Orlando-Miami uses the Florida's Turnpike, though functionally the same.

Buffalo-Washington DC or Buffalo-Baltimore are underserved by US219 not being finished to a decent junction point for those points. Both Rochester and Syracuse have decent routes (or future routes) to handle traffic to and from the mid-atlantic metro areas.

Toledo-Fort Wayne is getting full freeway (only the one light at the I-469 holds up the full-freeway route). IN-25 will continue Fort Wayne through to Lafayette. US322 limits Harrisburg-Erie traffic but is the better route than the turnpike (cheaper, too).

Pittsburgh-Scranton, sticking with Pennsylvania, is best done with PA-28, but requires two-lane from Kittaning to I-80 to handle the traffic flow. Scranton-Erie also has issues as either NY-17/I-86 or just sticking to US-6 is the best route than I-81-to-I-80-to-I-79.

Wheenling (WV) to any other city in West Virginia is underserved and forced to travel through either PA, OH, or MD to access Morgantown, Martinsburg, Charleston, Huntington, or Parkersburg via freeway. How Wheeling didn't get an Appalachian Highway corridor on US250 to help connect it to the rest of the state better (given Robert Byrd was the big backer of that endeavor) is odd.

Memphis-Indianapolis would be I-55 to I-57 to I-70, though I-69 will cut down that once it's finished completely. Memphis-Houston will be much better served by I-69 than the alternate freeway route of I-55 to I-10.

Denver-Dallas, though, may be the biggest cities not directly served by a direct freeway route. I-70 to I-235 to I-35 is a bit long compared to the non-freeway route of either I-40 to US287 or I-25 to US 87 to US 287.

I've driven US287 several times. There is a lot of traffic on a two-lane road. I know sometimes mapping software recommends the all-freeway routing through Wichita, but it is a bit ridiculous. Enough people have figured out that US 287 is a much better route for time, even with the perceived slow down of the two-lane aspect.

[UCFKnights]

Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it.  The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.

  Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.

Waldo's police department has recently been disbanded over the fraud there
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26680063/2014/10/01/speed-ticket-quotas-led-to-demise-of-waldo-police-department

[bing101]

Fresno to Bakersfield. These Cities depend more on CA-99.

Modesto to Fresno Need CA-99 more.

[Bickendan]

Portland-Las Vegas

[vtk]

For rankings, I propose this metric: p1p2e^(-d/D).  The variables p1, p2, and little d are obviously metro populations and distance between them. Big D is a constant, let's say 500 miles – about a good day's drive for a typical driver. Let distance be measured along the approximate non existent Interstate connection.

[roadman65]

Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it.  The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.

  Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.

Waldo's police department has recently been disbanded over the fraud there
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26680063/2014/10/01/speed-ticket-quotas-led-to-demise-of-waldo-police-department

Your missing the point, people were doing it regardless over decades of time.  My point was that I-4 Orlando traffic was far worse then the police in two cities in many drivers minds.

[texaskdog]

Does distance matter?

New York City and Los Angeles don't have a connecting Interstate.

...they have an all-Interstate route connecting them, smartarse.


You can't obviously sort city pairs by population (do you add the two? if so, NYC-Podunk beats anything else; take the smaller one? this might work, but there may be problems; geometric mean? this would place a connection between 10M and 1M cities above two with 1.1M, but might have other problems). Austin-Houston (mean 2.60M) is roughly comparable to Las Vegas-Phoenix (mean 2.62M). If we want to come up with actual rankings, we need to figure out what figure to use. (Obviously we want to use urbanized area populations, not just inside city limits, to prevent this from being complete trivia.)

PS: NYC-Philadelphia

Using that rationale, you CAN get from Phoenix to Vegas via interstate

New York City & Fresno

[pianocello]

For rankings, I propose this metric: p1p2e^(-d/D).  The variables p1, p2, and little d are obviously metro populations and distance between them. Big D is a constant, let's say 500 miles – about a good day's drive for a typical driver. Let distance be measured along the approximate non existent Interstate connection.

So using this formula, Phoenix-Las Vegas would be 4.72

p1=4.193
p2=1.951 (I decided to use millions of people rather than people to avoid incredibly large numbers. If you were to use the actual population, the answer would be the same *10^12)
d=275 miles (give or take)

This seems like an interesting measure, but I feel like existing interstate connections should be taken into account. For example, Phoenix to San Diego would probably generate a large number given their sizes and relatively small distance apart, but a hypothetical interstate connection along AZ 85 would only shave about 50 miles off of the shortest all-interstate route.

What if we use your metric, but instead of making Big D a constant, let it be the shortest existing interstate mileage between the cities?

[Bickendan]

Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it.  The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.

  Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.

Waldo's police department has recently been disbanded over the fraud there
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26680063/2014/10/01/speed-ticket-quotas-led-to-demise-of-waldo-police-department

Wow. At least Waldo had the sense not to follow New Rome, thus avoiding living up to the real life example of "Where's Waldo?"

[Henry]

Denver-Salt Lake City
Denver-Oklahoma City
Denver-Dallas

(Notice a trend?)

[NE2]

Denver-Salt Lake City
Denver-Oklahoma City
Denver-Dallas

(Notice a trend?)

Yes, but not only in this post: you reply without reading the thread.

Seriously though, before somebody says Denver to Salt Lake, I-25 to I-80 is about six miles longer than I-70 to US-6 to I-15 (where a "direct" interstate would run).

[NE2]

I calculated geometric mean and vtk's value for most pairs mentioned in this thread using 2010 urban area populations. Note that NYC-Philly is not a real answer; 95-195-295-76 is close enough. Jax-Tampa is also debatable; going via Orlando adds only 20 miles. And note that Brownsville excludes the Mexican side of the border (as does San Diego).

The order using geometric mean is:
Dallas   Denver
Phoenix   San Diego
Miami   Orlando
Los Angeles   Fresno
Phoenix   Las Vegas
Houston   Austin
Las Vegas   Portland
Detroit   Indianapolis
Houston   Memphis
Detroit   Columbus
Washington   Buffalo
Tampa   Jacksonville
San Francisco   Fresno
Denver   OKC
Las Vegas   Reno
Providence   Hartford
Houston   Brownsville
Memphis   Birmingham
Portland   Spokane
Pittsburgh   Scranton
San Antonio   Brownsville
Tulsa   Wichita
Reno   Spokane
Reno   Boise

and using vtk's value is:
Phoenix   San Diego
Miami   Orlando
Los Angeles   Fresno
Houston   Austin
Phoenix   Las Vegas
Detroit   Columbus
Detroit   Indianapolis
Dallas   Denver
Washington   Buffalo
Tampa   Jacksonville
Houston   Memphis
San Francisco   Fresno
Las Vegas   Portland
Providence   Hartford
Denver   OKC
Las Vegas   Reno
Houston   Brownsville
Memphis   Birmingham
Pittsburgh   Scranton
Portland   Spokane
San Antonio   Brownsville
Tulsa   Wichita
Reno   Boise
Reno   Spokane
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EB6bdnNKz49vB1XrKlk7VaIxju5QMKZyBZZhL3I6fs0/edit?usp=sharing for the full details.